Curse

Silent Kitty · Jul 08, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

This is why you always check and double check that the monks in a PUG are healing/protecting monks. Yes, a smiting monk will get ejected from a PUG, as well they should. Any class can deal damage, and most can do it alot better than a smiting monk can. Healing and protection, on the other hand, are limited to a monk, and its the only reason they get into a PUG.

I do a lot of quests without healer. When I know that I will be ejected, I'll keep my mouth shut. Am I asking for abuse? I know that. I can take the heat, when I know it's coming. I have points in healing, and so should your Mesmer, Warrior, assassin, Ranger or Necro. Learn to play without the healer, and you'll discover a whole new world

FalconDance · Jul 08, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

This is why you always check and double check that the monks in a PUG are healing/protecting monks. Yes, a smiting monk will get ejected from a PUG, as well they should. Any class can deal damage, and most can do it alot better than a smiting monk can. Healing and protection, on the other hand, are limited to a monk, and its the only reason they get into a PUG.

And I would agree with that except in obvious places like the Kryta missions where there is a preponderence of undead just asking to be smote

.

However, if the mission/quest is going well, why shouldn't a monk be dealing damage? My retired Healer carried Spiteful Spirit as her elite (otherwise set for full heal) just to relieve the boredom. Very seldom did she run dry of energy and the ones who died were either squishies trying to tank (hey, even a healer extraordinaire can only do so much) or warriors caught in a hell-of-their-own-making (i.e. stupid aggro. Note to warriors: Charge!, Sprint and other running skills are not for running far ahead of the party to engage without back-up).

I suspect that Tavish (the Smiter) will be set for Heal more often than not when in a PuG, but if I'm henching it, then I'll go smite.....or ranged

mattjones527 · Jul 08, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

I have points in healing, and so should your Mesmer, Warrior, assassin, Ranger or Necro.

If everyone brings enough self heals then they wouldnt need a monk and would go without one. If they invite a monk and expect him to heal that means they want to focus on something else(like damage) and let the monk focus on heals.

Silent Kitty · Jul 09, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattjones527

If everyone brings enough self heals then they wouldnt need a monk and would go without one. If they invite a monk and expect him to heal that means they want to focus on something else(like damage) and let the monk focus on heals.

A monk might be a support character, be s/he's nobody's slave. In this game I meet so many people who are beyond healing, that I don't see the point of being a "full" healer. Many times my monk was the last one standing, without any ability to kill the monsters that were camping the bodys of my mates. Don't tell me that I should have brought rebirth, because when you follow the story-line, you don't get it before Lion's or Yaks (I think).

Age · Jul 09, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattjones527

If everyone brings enough self heals then they wouldnt need a monk and would go without one. If they invite a monk and expect him to heal that means they want to focus on something else(like damage) and let the monk focus on heals.

There are 2 exceptions to this and that is if there is a Mesmer and an Elementalist in the party they don't have great self heals especially in poison water or any.That is where a Monk comes in and can clear it up.I am not sure about Sins or Rits as they are new and I haven't played one full out.

Quote:

Originally posted by Silent KittyA monk might be a support character, be s/he's nobody's slave. In this game I meet so many people who are beyond healing, that I don't see the point of being a "full" healer. Many times my monk was the last one standing, without any ability to kill the monsters that were camping the bodys of my mates. Don't tell me that I should have brought rebirth, because when you follow the story-line, you don't get it before Lion's or Yaks (I think).

You are correct in way but as that is the way it use to be but the skill trainers have more skills you can get it in Ascalon but I prefer Restorelife as it doesn't use up to much energy or drain you afterwards.This is even if I am protect and I like Res. chant as well.

tear · Jul 09, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

A monk might be a support character, be s/he's nobody's slave. In this game I meet so many people who are beyond healing, that I don't see the point of being a "full" healer. Many times my monk was the last one standing, without any ability to kill the monsters that were camping the bodys of my mates. Don't tell me that I should have brought rebirth, because when you follow the story-line, you don't get it before Lion's or Yaks (I think).

Didn't you say before the entire reason you play a monk is because you have constant horrible delay - somewhere around an entire second's worth of it - and found all you could really do in such a situation is stand back and heal?

Also, you're no more a slave as a healer to your team than warriors are for dishing out damage for it. It's a cooperative relationship. You're simply fooling others' into thinking you are what they expected for your own enjoyment, whether it hurts the team or not. If you feel the way you've said, why not be honest about it? At least then they could prepare, or find someone else who better fits their group's ideas.

Silent Kitty · Jul 09, 2006, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by tear

Didn't you say before the entire reason you play a monk is because you have constant horrible delay - somewhere around an entire second's worth of it - and found all you could really do in such a situation is stand back and heal?

Also, you're no more a slave as a healer to your team than warriors are for dishing out damage for it. It's a cooperative relationship. You're simply fooling others' into thinking you are what they expected for your own enjoyment, whether it hurts the team or not. If you feel the way you've said, why not be honest about it? At least then they could prepare, or find someone else who better fits their group's ideas.

Nobody is telling the warrior what to bring, and most people create a warrior because they like to chop heads

I use Zealot's Fire and Smite Hex because they target my allies. That way I am still in my role as healer and only have to target the red bars. Targeting a moving object is almost impossible for me, since they are never where I see them.
Using Zealot's, I can heal someone and smite their attackers at the same time. Child's play

Do you like to see my skill list?

felinette · Jul 09, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

If you're tired of the abuse you get as a monk, then don't play one or don't join PUGs (which is essentially the same as not playing one if you don't belong to a good guild or have a regular bunch of friends you can group with). I find monking so much more enjoyable when I'm out with guildies--people seem more relaxed about everything and aren't just there because they want to rush through a mission.

Note that I've been out with a lot of bad monks. I don't think they deserve abuse, as no player does, but they definitely should consider playing something else.

Quote:

On the issue of pets I dont even bother healing them unless im sitting on full energy and no one is really taking dmg.

One of my rangers is a beastmaster. Without her pet, she's much less effective, not to mention that her pet is often the best tank in the group. She does her best to keep her pet alive, but when a monk pitches in, it's great. Good monks always recognize early on how much her pet is helping the group and keep the pet healed. Bad monks don't.

tear · Jul 09, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

Nobody is telling the warrior what to bring, and most people create a warrior because they like to chop heads

I use Zealot's Fire and Smite Hex because they target my allies. That way I am still in my role as healer and only have to target the red bars. Targeting a moving object is almost impossible for me, since they are never where I see them.
Using Zealot's, I can heal someone and smite their attackers at the same time. Child's play

Do you like to see my skill list?

No one's telling a warrior what to bring because they assume it's going to be tanking, just as they don't tell a monk exactly what to bring because they assume it's going to be "monking" - if that warrior brought a nuking build and started firing from a distance, the team'd probably be just as annoyed.

Anyway, my point is, it isn't wrong for a group to ask for a complete and dedicated healer - unfairly tricking them for your own reasons is, though.

Silent Kitty · Jul 09, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

One of my rangers is a beastmaster. Without her pet, she's much less effective, not to mention that her pet is often the best tank in the group. She does her best to keep her pet alive, but when a monk pitches in, it's great. Good monks always recognize early on how much her pet is helping the group and keep the pet healed. Bad monks don't.

Communication is the essence, because most rangers have only their remaining points in beastmastery and don't carry any pet skills.
I can recognize a strong pet, but it takes at least 2 battles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tear

Anyway, my point is, it isn't wrong for a group to ask for a complete and dedicated healer - unfairly tricking them for your own reasons is, though.

It is wrong, but the only option if you don't want to be kicked. The people are tough on non-cookie builds.

Stockholm · Jul 09, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

This is why you always check and double check that the monks in a PUG are healing/protecting monks. Yes, a smiting monk will get ejected from a PUG, as well they should. Any class can deal damage, and most can do it alot better than a smiting monk can. Healing and protection, on the other hand, are limited to a monk, and its the only reason they get into a PUG.

You really don't have a clue, do you?
A smiting monk is on par with a nuker when it comes to dealing out dmg, if you know what your doing. Then you go Mo/E and you out dmg the nuker easy.
Healing/protection can very effectevly be done by a Rit, even a N/Mo can heal very well with an endless(soulreaping) supply off energy, specialy in cantha with the big mob's.
Please start thinking outside the cockie box

felinette · Jul 09, 2006, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

It is wrong, but the only option if you don't want to be kicked. The people are tough on non-cookie builds.

I'd be the first to say that I hate to see groups wanting cookie-cutter builds, but if that's what they're asking for, it *is* wrong to claim you're something you're not, or to knowingly not mention that you happen to be a smiter, when you know they're most likely looking for a healer. It's not fair to the players in the group.

Xenrath · Jul 09, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

I'd say 99% of the time (on Euro servers at least) monks are expected to be healers. Then if there is already a monk in the party the 2nd monk may be asked if they're prot or heal. Smiters are by and large unwelcomed/not the expectation of the party.

As for bad monks, well fair point but even factoring that in, the monk class is the singularly most abused class. Maybe crazy wammos and sometimes tanking eles might get a bit of stick (ESPECIALLY if they have the nerve to complain about dying afterwards) but most of the time mesmers, rangers, eles, necros etc who die a lot/don't play too well don't receive much stick. The same can't be said of monk players, regardless if they play well or badly and that's probably one reason why there aren't many of them around.

It's not about wanting to be treated special or have people grovelling at your feet - just to be treated the same as most other classes i.e. not being blamed for everything and other peoples' mistakes. A lot of people seem to forget there's a player behind the monk as well, who may be spending most of the time just looking at some bars moving back and forth and changing colour. How exciting..

All it takes is one whiner in the group to ruin the gameplay for up to 7 others.

edit: let's for argument's sake say ritualists take over the monk role. What will happen is they'll just become the most abused class and take all the flack instead

Silent Kitty · Jul 09, 2006, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

I'd be the first to say that I hate to see groups wanting cookie-cutter builds, but if that's what they're asking for, it *is* wrong to claim you're something you're not, or to knowingly not mention that you happen to be a smiter, when you know they're most likely looking for a healer. It's not fair to the players in the group.

My monk is only lvl 18, but with lvl 13 healing, 6 divine and 6 smiting, I am technically a healer

I also have lvl 6 Inspiration Magic, but that doesn't make me a mesmer either.

Res Ipsi · Jul 09, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

My monk has never been verbally abused. She does her job, and no one (except a few over-zealous wammos) has ever complained about her healing/prot abilities. What I find abusive is that other players, desperate for a monk, will actually lie to me to get me to join their teams - then expect me to stay and complete the mission with them. I have in the past, but no longer.

mattjones527 · Jul 09, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

A monk might be a support character, be s/he's nobody's slave. In this game I meet so many people who are beyond healing, that I don't see the point of being a "full" healer. Many times my monk was the last one standing, without any ability to kill the monsters that were camping the bodys of my mates. Don't tell me that I should have brought rebirth, because when you follow the story-line, you don't get it before Lion's or Yaks (I think).

Of course the monk should be one of the last one's standing(in pve), most likely your gonna be standing in the backline healing. Which is why monks are the most common class expected to carry a res.

If your talking about builds before lions arch then you dont exactly have hardly any smiting skills either.

But of course the skill trainers have any skills that are unlocked so anyone who has played the game for a bit will most likely have rebirth unlocked I would think.

Silent Kitty · Jul 09, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattjones527

If your talking about builds before lions arch then you dont exactly have hardly any smiting skills either.

But of course the skill trainers have any skills that are unlocked so anyone who has played the game for a bit will most likely have rebirth unlocked I would think.

There are a few smite skills available. Not all skills are available everywhere. You have to progress. My monk which had most of them unlocked was deleted. I have rebirth now. Despite my attitude here, I am still not a bad healer. When I tell my team mates that I am a healer, that is what they get. The smiting is what I do for fun, because I am not that far yet that I have to spam heals of over 200 life. Healing lvl 13 with Divine lvl 9 should be able to keep players alive at least until the desert. If it doesn't, tough luck.

XvArchonvX · Jul 09, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

My monk is my second oldest characters at about 1 yr old now as well as one of my most played. From my experience I generally don't see much abuse when I play as him. Sure every once in a blue moon someone will get mad when they die, but that has been a very rare occurence.

FalconDance · Jul 09, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

There are a few smite skills available. Not all skills are available everywhere. You have to progress. My monk which had most of them unlocked was deleted. I have rebirth now. Despite my attitude here, I am still not a bad healer. When I tell my team mates that I am a healer, that is what they get. The smiting is what I do for fun, because I am not that far yet that I have to spam heals of over 200 life. Healing lvl 13 with Divine lvl 9 should be able to keep players alive at least until the desert. If it doesn't, tough luck.

(emphasis mine)

My monk, Cait (Tyrian, retired), had very few if any complaints about her healing. And trust me, it was a long process to fully learn and understand how to be a good healer. Just because you have a "Mo" and linen armor/tats with a full skillbar of healing skills does not mean you are a good healer! Luckily, a fellow player monk took Cait under her tutelage and saved her from a very early retirement

rather than after endgame.

Silent Kitty · Jul 09, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Bad healers are known all over the internet